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Connecticut shooting, evil, N. T. Wright, Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, violence in society
This morning, I heard the distressing news about yet one more shooting, this time at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Just a few days ago, someone killed a bunch of people, apparently for no good reason in an Oregon mall. Today in Newtown, Connecticut, we have innocent children being killed. All Americans should be distressed by this horrible news. Who kills children? We have seen the face of evil today.
What should be our response? In my recent reading of and writing about a book of N. T. Wright, Evil and the Justice of God, some insights surface (I’m writing a review of it for the book’s Chinese publisher). Facebook responses can range from blaming others (i.e. the other guy is a bad guy, more or less gun control etc.) to blaming ourselves (i.e. we’re equally violent and evil). I’ve seen the range of responses this morning, all of them filled with angst, anger, and sadness. Many, surprisingly, are highly moralistic.
Wright does not give any standard answer in his brief book. He solves no problem as far as the problem of evil and justice of God is concerned. He talks more about responses. Instead of philosophizing, he talks about how we can do better as a faith community to curtail the evil in this world in the footsteps of Jesus. Rather than merely blaming, each believer can pray, certainly, especially for those who lost loved ones. After we get over our anger and sadness, we can take practical steps besides prayer. Every person might take a different response, but perhaps, somehow we can put our efforts together, in community, and make sure no more life is lost in this manner (at least, if we can help it). Prayerful action is the only solution to this kind of evil. Tonight, I’m going to hug my children, pray with them, and talk about safety in this terribly flawed world. Peace, all.
PS. This is a note I saw for the residents in that area. Please pass along. Emergency mental-health services, in the community, can really give support to families in a tragedy like this one. One organization providing them in Newtown is this one: Contact: Candice Bohr Newtown Youth & Family Services Phone: 203-270-4335 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE December 14, 2012 NEWTOWN YOUTH & FAMILY SERVICES OPEN FOR EMERGENCY COUNSELING NEWTOWN, CT—Newtown Youth & Family Services, Inc., will be open Saturday December 15th and Sunday December 16th from 9:00AM-4:00PM for emergency counseling for families, community members or staff involved in the Sandy Hook Elementary school tragedy.
Engage Scriptures 
‘Who kills children?’
But does Tom Wright confront those passages in the Bible where God commands the targeted killing of innocent women, children and babies? I am thinking of 1 Samuel 15 (not to mention others). How can a church community address the evil killings at Sandy Hook Elementary School when their own scriptures sanction the slaughter of innocents?
Paul, Wright does not. I think we’re talking about two levels of meaning. I think Wright is only concerned with a practical response and not a philosophical-theological-exegetical answer to theodicy. That book was not the catch-all answer to these important questions. In a day like this, in my own country, I prefer not to deal with those issues, knowing that there’re more important issues at hand with those grieving for their loss.
Anytime something evil occurs, we can’t figure it out. In a way, that’s a good thing, I told my wife to thank God she couldn’t “understand people like this”.
On the other hand, the kosmos is not God’s, it’s His enemy’s and that’s where we live as foreigners. Evil is having her say, so to speak.
Prayer and honoring Christ is our role, agreed.
Yes, try as we may, “blame” is not where we should head towards right now. Surely, the murderers in those two cases are definitely culpable. I’m not sure what else is behind all that and may never know.
I’d rebut Paul’s characterization above of the “innocent” women ,children and babies Yahweh commanded the Israelites to destroy.. That’s exactly the opposite of what the bible details.
Whether one takes the bible as myth,,metaphor, truth, or a mixture, we ought to get an accurate view of the entire narrative.
Those groups such as the Amalekites were not innocent, they were hybrid 1/2 human, 1/2 divine creatures called nephilim. Gen. 6 details their beginnings.
Some think that’s a myth or metaphor. Lots of folks think it’s nonsense( I don’t). But, it explains tons of OT theology, including why the flood happened, why Yahweh placed a herem/ban on entire groups(including their animals BTW) and not on other groups, etc.
Every group where Yahweh places the herem/ban on, the groups are populated with nephilim. The times Yahweh does not place the herem/ban, the nephilim are absent. Take note of that. Nephilim presence determined the herem/ban or not.
Goliath is the last known one in the Massoretic text, so they are very prominent until David’s youth in the text. We just ignore them.
They were implacable opponents of God, God’s plan announced in Genesis 3:15 and His people. They were part of “the seed of the serpent” at enmity with the seed of the woman.
To not do the herem/ban would have meant the Jews instead would have been offed by a herem/ban by their god, Lucifer.
They were God’s implacable foes. It was them or it was the Jews and since Christ came from the Jews, I say Yahweh did intrinsic good eliminating nephilim from earth myself. Whether girls, babies are grown males.
Cleared the path for the Jews to survive.
The weird thing is the church stopped teaching this and Orthodox Jews did as well in the AD.
Both driven by fear of the term, “beney elohim”(sons of God) in Gen. 6. The Jews because it sounded too much like “Son of God” and our side due to fears of polytheism in the Hebrew bible.
Both were wrong, IMO.
It is demonstrable in intra testamental writings(especially I Enoch) Jews firmly believed in the nephilim as Lucifer’s agents. The early church did because Peter and Jude mention the conduct of beney elohim.
Modern Jews and modern Christians decided the bible was wrong on nephilim and it causes us to not understand that exceptional evil drives God to do some exceptional things to protect His plan and people.
Patrick, thanks for the reply. While I believe in and value the Reformed doctrine of total depravity, I always remind myself that the word “innocent,” as it were, should be used in terms of a spectrum rather than absolute. I’d say perhaps Paul meant “relative innocent” people. After all, the children did not deserve the violence being done to them.
As for the Israelite genocide passages, they remain a bit of an embarrassment for both Jews and Christians. Although I can defend it, but I suspect I can’t convince the other side. As for the Nephilim story, it is probably an entirely different matter, even in the post-flood portrait of Raphaim. I remain quite agnostic about that simply because the biblical texts don’t tell us enough about them. Thanks again for putting in the effort to address an important topic.
…or we could just face the raw unpleasantness of this story and admit it is unworthy of a holy just and loving God?
Btw in a non-patronising way 🙂 i really commend you for your honesty
“I’d rebut Paul’s characterization above of the “innocent” women ,children and babies Yahweh commanded the Israelites to destroy.. That’s exactly the opposite of what the bible details.”
Actually it is precisely what happened. Read:
Samuel said to Saul, ‘The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. 2Thus says the Lord of hosts, “I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. 3Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” ’
But these babies and children (and animals) were being punished for sins committed by people 400 years earlier! That is unjust, unloving, and just wrong. In modern language it is genocide.
Yes, it’s a hard one to swallow, Paul. Even as a biblical researcher by trade, I find it really hard to come up with a good explanation, and that’s after reading the literature on this stuff from my masters to my PhD. I guess the best way (and there’s no best way really) is to see some kind of literary device being used in the broader narrative, but I haven’t had time to research on this yet.
…or we could just face the raw unpleasantness of this story and admit it is unworthy of a holy just and loving God?
Btw in a non-patronising way i really commend you for your honesty
I only proclaim my ignorance, Paul. I really don’t know enough to comment on something like that. I admit I struggle with it, though I never cross the line of making a dichotomy between the OT God and the NT God. I suppose I take a lot of it by faith and a dose of agnosticism. It’s quite a wonder I can still preach on the pulpit sometimes. I suppose I can, by God’s grace. And as always, I thank you and Patrick for engaging with my blogs. Your very different opinions are always welcome here because you’re both thoughtful people.
perhaps Marcion was right?
I would say that Marcion was right in seeing the issues. At the same time, I’m thinking his problem is much more than intellectual. He saw the interpretive issue, as does the Alexandrine and Antioch schools among the fathers. Each has its own solution. The best summary to me on this issue (at least very concise) is a book I read years ago. It’s by Richard Longenecker. His Galatians commentary discusses this issue of interpretation but not the problem of theodicy or slaughter of the Canaanite children. It’s worth a read just for the topic here.
‘His Galatians commentary discusses this issue of interpretation but not the problem of theodicy or slaughter of the Canaanite children.’
But that’s the subject I think needs discussing. Does it not strike you that the God proclaimed by Jesus is sometimes (not always) at odds with the God portrayed in the Torah?
I can only say that my ignorance of the OT is in direct parallel with the long historical distance we have with that ANE culture. I don’t tend to read the OT as historical facts without a certain kind of ideology. The problem is, I still don’t know what ideology some of the texts are trying to preach.
But is the God of the Torah not the same God that Jesus proclaimed and the same God we pray to today?
I would have to say yes based on all the OT quotations the NT authors’ quotations of the OT.
OK. And God does not change? His character and attributes are eternal?
I suppose. I can’t even proclaim that I understand this God more than just a little bit. The only way I understand this God is through Jesus Christ. I think that’s why Jesus came, but not to reveal ALL that God is, but to show enough of God to connect with us frail humans.
“The only way I understand this God is through Jesus Christ.”
Actually I don’t agree. If we estimate that the human race has been around for several hundred thousand years (at least) then it is consistent with God’s character as a God of love and justice to expect that he revealed his will and character across the millennia to countless people who have never (of necessity) never heard of Jesus.
So most of mankind have encountered God without Jesus.
I suppose the partial Christian answer would be to let others know about Jesus Christ, but I also can’t answer the question of “what if they’ve never heard” though I used to think I have that answer. I totally respect your disagreement and appreciate your argument.
thank you. I am a Muslim convert from evangelical Christianity and I find the God revealed in the Quran to be much more pluralist and inclusive…
and I respect that, Paul.
Paul,
As a Muslim, you accept lots of our “weird” stuff , right? Angels, demons, the devil, etc.
The logic for this herem/ban is no weirder than that. The victims of it were part demonic in makeup and God would have failed at His promises in Gen 3:15 if he had not done this( and the flood).
Then, all humanity perishes, not just these nephilim. Plus, if universalists are accurate, these nephilim will be glad they failed back then when it’s all said and done.
I see that as intrinsic good, not evil myself.
BTW, don’t you guys agree with the regional flood killing everyone over there as the act of Allah? IF you see all that death, why is that good and killing a tiny set of people groups is evidence of an evil God when it says they’re part divine creatures at odds with God? I don’t see the logic here. The flood killed everyone almost, right?
Sam,
Raphaim, Anakim ,nephilim. Everywhere you see this herem, there they are.
Dr Michael Heiser has an unpublished book out on this, “The Myth that is true”. If he publishes it, take the time to check it out. He documents his stuff superbly. I’ve read it.
I can send you an attachment of the unpublished version if you’d be interested.
Patrick, just let me know when it comes out. I’m never comfortable with reading someone’s rough draft no more than any of my editor sending out my unedited manuscript to others other than reviewers. Thank you though.
Patrick, are you saying that that children, babies and animals in 1 Samuel 15 were ‘demonic in makeup’?
Paul,
Hybrids, part human, part divine creature. Nephilim/giants. Beginning with Gen. 6 they appear and they finally exit when David kills Goliath in the Massoretic text.
They all appear in the area Joshua entered the land from except for Goliath, if you recall the spies were fearful of the “giants” they saw. That word is nephilim in Hebrew. Amalek was part of that.
Notice in that passage you asked about that even their animals are placed under the herem/ban and yet the Kenites are sent off to safety? There’s a reason for that. That hybrid feature had to be eradicated, even the animals had to go to stop that phenomenon.
I had to take OT theology courses to see this myself, most the Church rejects what the text states caused the herem and the flood.
How do you guys see the flood and sodom & gomorrah and 70 AD Jerusalem? Lots of dead babies in each there.
Just taking these motifs as mythological retelling of some kind of historical events, i would say that the flood and Sodom were matched within Genesis. We simply can’t put 70 AD in there. Again, I’m taking this as a literary critic, not as a historian (I mean, who knows where the historical flood was and where Sodom was). I see the parallel motif between the violation of heaven-earth order in the giant’s tales at the flood and of the violation between human beings in Sodom. That’s as far as I would take it. I don’t take the dead baby problem because 1) the text does not answer it 2) ethically, there’s no answer 3) the Joshua tale could very much be an exaggeration of what the Israelites actually saw in the land. After all, DNA testing was not available. This is diff from saying that none of it is historical. I just think there’re a lot of question marks in the text that the author/editor did not address. I know it’s a bad answer, but that’s where I stop.
Sam,
This issue troubles almost all Christians and Jews and I assume Muslims as well.
One thing, this issues does explain the herem. Heck, the ban itself could be a metaphor.
I just tend to see these things as historic personally is all. No proving it is.
Oh I don’t see the ban as a metaphor. I was more referring two the giant episodes.
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Indeed you’re right.
Sam,
This is a scholarly dissertation, but, if the Marquette professor is accurate, this “watcher/nephilim” idea influenced Matthew’s Gospel to an extent in assigning Jesus via His geneaology another role the Church has not noticed, “the greater Enoch” and another version of “the great reversal”.
http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1044&context=dissertations_mu
I read it. I just can’t see the parallel the author claims. I personally would’ve steered my PhD student towards a different direction. I personally don’t think she has a case. I’m sure she’s assistant professor at best, since she just got her PhD in 2009.
Sam,
I appreciate you taking the time to read it anyway.
Thank you, Patrick. I appreciate you sharing it and appreciate the effort made by the author.